• With: Karl Rove

    This is a RUSH transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," July 21, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

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    O'REILLY: "FACTOR Follow-up" segment tonight. As you may know, I've called for the National Guard to be put on the border for years. They would provide the back-up, could be stationed in hot spots where illegal aliens cross at will, and might detain people breaking U.S. law federal authorities arrive.

    Mr. Obama refuses to order the Guard to the border even though his predecessor, President Bush, did. Now, Governor Perry of Texas has ordered 1,000 guardsmen to the border.

    Joining us from Austin, Texas, Fox News Analyst Karl Rove. Before we get to that, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked that evasive Brit Hume.

    If you're president, you've got to pick Kerry or Clinton as your secretary of state, who do you pick and why.

    KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, only two choices, those are it?

    O'REILLY: That's it.

    ROVE: Five years ago, I would have said Clinton. But after the failed reset with Russia, after Benghazi, after the failure in Syria, after the whole string of disasters that occurred on her watch, she clearly was not a strong secretary of state and couldn't penetrate the White House decision-making process.

    I'd got to go with Kerry. Though I've got to tell you, he's off to a weak start if he's defending the Iranian situation and, you know, I was taking his behavior on Sunday, both on camera with Chris Wallace and off- camera when they caught him in that unscripted moment.

    The guy is curlish. He looks like he's under a lot of pressure. He probably doesn't like the job so far.

    O'REILLY: Well, yes, you know, I know him real well because I covered him up in Boston.

    (LAUGHTER)

    He doesn't roll with it. I mean, you know, he's a Patrician. And he doesn't like -- but he's smart. He's smart.

    OK, let's get to Perry and the Guard. I believe this is the right move, as I said. And I think it puts Governor Perry where he, --

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    -- himself, wants to be in the spotlight for the presidential election. And you say.

    ROVE: I think it does give him some attention. It also gives him -- frankly, I think he's more interested in trying to get this problem solved than he is thinking about the political consequences of this.

    But it does help him politically. But, more importantly, I think it draws attention --

    (END VIDEO CLIP)

    -- to the crisis on the border. There is, however, a challenge here, a danger for Perry. There's a qualitative difference in having the Guard brought forward by the President of the United States and brought forward by the governor.

    If it's brought forward by the president, the guard can be, in essence, the backroom, the back-up for the Border Patrol. You can team them, you can integrate them into the border -- into the Border Patrol's efforts.

    You can disperse these people in such a way that they free up Border Patrol agents to go do what they need to do on the border. If you are doing what Governor Perry is doing, he doesn't have any relationship with the Border Patrol.

    He's going to pair these people with the Texas Department of Public Safety, --

    O'REILLY: Right.

    ROVE: -- the Texas Rangers, the Texas Parks and Wildlife -- you know, and doing what they're doing on the border which is not as much as what the Border Patrol does. I mean, far more effective --

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    O'REILLY: But I think you hit it though. He wants to solve the problem because he wants to leave office. And he will do that --

    (END VIDEO CLIP)

    -- in November on high note. And he also wants to run for president. But just the fact that those pictures will go out to Central America of the National Guard armed on the border, will suppress that industry, all right, --

    ROVE: Remember this, --

    O'REILLY: -- because people will want -- won't be so anxious to pay the $5 to $700 when they got military people facing them. Last word.

    ROVE: Yes. Well, first of all, it's several thousand dollars, not four or $500. And, second of all, they may not be armed.

    Because, remember, under federal law, under the 1807 Insurrection Act, the 1876 Posse Comitatus Act and the 1918 National Guard Act, they cannot perform law enforcement functions. They can't.

    O'REILLY: They can protect themselves and they'll be armed.

    ROVE: They can protect themselves but, in all likelihood, we're not going to see a thousand National Guardsmen with bayonets and rifles standing along the border.

    O'REILLY: No, but if you see 50 of them, the message will go out. And I think that's what the governor is aiming for.

    Mr. Rove, thanks as always. Last word, you want another one?

    ROVE: Well, I just -- I think Governor Perry is attempting to actually get something done here. And that's going to be the measure of his success.

    As it is, after a couple of months, he's going to be able to point to, "Here's what we concretely did to stop cartels, trafficking." The children are going to be an ancillary story.