ROGINSKY: Right.

INGRAHAM: Heidi Heitkamp is -- is running. And she's actually come up and criticize the individual mandate, Tim Kaine is not doing any snoopy dance in Virginia.

ROGINSKY: Right.

INGRAHAM: Because the court came down the way it did.

ROGINSKY: Right.

INGRAHAM: So -- aren't a lot of these Democrats in a very difficult situation given the continued unpopularity of Obamacare?

ROGINSKY: Well it depends what you highlight about "Obamacare" quote, unquote. If you highlight --

INGRAHAM: Well, it's the individual mandate.

ROGINSKY: If you highlight -- well, the Republicans want to highlight the individual mandate and the Democrats run on their terms and yes they're not going to do too well. But if they run on their own terms and talk about all of the positive. The fact that pre-existing conditions are no longer allowed. The fact that (inaudible) you can't get your insurance is no longer allowed.

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: How you about the money, how about the taxes on individual families, the middle class; $4.2 billion according to the CBO. That's a lot of money

ROGINSKY: Well, you know again, again -- again, you are only taxed if you A, already don't have healthcare. Or you don't fall --

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: There are 21 taxes actually, there's income tax, there's medical devices tax. Tanning tax, I know that's big for you Julie.

ROGINSKY: Tanning tax is not for me.

INGRAHAM: It's a joke.

For John -- for John Boehner maybe not for me. But -- but look, I mean, the bottom line is this, again, if you're calling it a tax. If this were a Commerce Clause issue, it will be federal issue; if you're calling it a tax, Romneycare was also a tax and again it's the exact same thing.

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: I'm not defending Romney care but these Democrats want to run away from this -- this decision.

ROGINSKY: Again, again who is going to be the messenger for the Republican Party, the guy who was the architect?

INGRAHAM: Well, he's raising $4.6 million.

ROGINSKY: He is raising it today before this blowback begins but until people realize --

INGRAHAM: What blowback? The blowback in three years on Obamacare it's unpopular.

(CROSSTALK)

ROGINSKY: But the blowback -- the blowback on the debate when Barack Obama or anybody else decides to talk Mitt Romney on this and say look this was based and predicated on what you've done in Massachusetts --

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: Did -- did the President lie when he said I will not tax the middle class? People making under $250,000 are not going to get taxes, is that a lie?

ROGINSKY: No, that was not a lie.

INGRAHAM: Well, did he lie to George Stephanopoulos when said it wasn't a tax.

ROGINSKY: No let me -- excuse me but Justice Roberts said this was a tax. The President --

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: Yes I disagree with Justice Roberts but the President came forward and said it was not a tax. Did he lie?

ROGINSKY: Excuse me just because Justice Roberts said it was a tax does not mean it was a tax.

INGRAHAM: So you are now thinking, you're saying it wasn't a tax?

ROGINSKY: I'm saying what exactly what the majority of the liberals in the Supreme Court that this should have been under the Commerce Clause. And the fact that Justice Roberts decided to call it something else is up to Justice Roberts. It doesn't mean that --

(CROSSTALK)

INGRAHAM: So the -- so the Democrats, Steve, I think are in this position where they have to say either nothing or that it's not a tax, which is interesting because the Supreme Court said it was a tax. Now I think Justice Roberts decision was a disaster. The Commerce Clause opinion part of it not withstanding.

But is that hard for them and can Republicans really ride this to victory without a real reform-minded replacement that everybody can understand because so far we haven't heard a lot of specifics on that?

LAW: Well, on the tax issue in particular I think the President looks like he wasn't dealing straight with the American people. I mean, he looked America in the eye and said it absolutely was not a tax and then his own lawyers were arguing in front of the Supreme Court in order to save Obamacare that it was in fact a tax and now we all know because Supreme Court declared it was is a tax.

And I think it looks like the President wasn't dealing straight with the American people on their health care. And that's a big problem. But that's not the only thing the Democrats have to run from. They have to run from the fact that this law slashes senior's care. It puts a -- a board of independent unelected bureaucrats --