• With: Casey Anthony Jury Foreman, Juror No. 11

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could have.

    VAN SUSTEREN: So it wasn't, like -- I realize (INAUDIBLE) the thinking by the prosecution is it was on the flesh, and when the flesh recedes and decomposes, that then that moves the tape.

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, the tape was a little -- the tape was more attached to the side. As it got up towards the mouth, it became more detached. And that's where, you know, a lot of the discrepancy could have been.

    But you know, it was a situation really where, with decomp and with time spent, with time gone by, we knew the vicinity of where that tape was, but we just didn't know, you know, exactly where. But it was -- you know, we knew the vicinity of where that tape was in relation to the skull.

    VAN SUSTEREN: Were you convinced where that tape came from, I mean, the source of the tape?


    VAN SUSTEREN: Where did the tape come from?

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tape came from wherever they store the tape at the Anthony house.

    VAN SUSTEREN: So it was Anthony tape. You don't have any doubt about that.

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It was a very distinctive type of tape. The tape was shown numerous times, the same type of tape, which was made in -- in Avon, Ohio, which had its mark on it. It was not your standard silver duct tape that did not have any markings on. This did -- this did have a mark on it, and it was on throughout the tape consistently. Every couple of inches, there was that mark.

    I've never seen that tape before, and I've bought duct tape numerous times. I know that that same tape was spotted in a video at one of the centers that they opened up for the missing Caylee. It was noted to be on numerous signs to be posted for -- that had pictures of Caylee. It was also placed on the gas can, which was, you know, something that was attributed to the house there.

    VAN SUSTEREN: It's amazing how you become an expert in things like -- even now, you're an expert in tape. I mean, you...


    VAN SUSTEREN: ... day in and day out, things that you never ordinarily in your career might become so familiar with.

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Right. Exactly. You never know. I mean, those things -- some things that we would never want to learn, we had to learn. Some things we knew a little bit about, you know, that was only refined.

    VAN SUSTEREN: How -- how do you -- or what did you believe to be or conclude was how the remains or the body got from wherever the child died to the -- where the remains were found, a couple blocks away?

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I mean, we know that it was -- I mean, obviously, the body was -- it was dumped there. It was left there. As far as -- there's a lot of gray area, a lot of gray area that goes from on that June 15th to when the body was discovered.

    And there's a lot of that, you know -- there's just a lot of speculation as to how it got there. Who took it there? And just a lot of unanswered questions in that regard. So I can't really comment on that. I don't know how it got there, how Caylee got there. I don't -- I can't tell you how or who, but ultimately, the body ended up there.

    VAN SUSTEREN: Did you -- were you ever convinced how she died?


    VAN SUSTEREN: So what's your most likely, which is -- which is -- apart from -- beyond a reasonable doubt is a very different standard than what's most likely or what you think or what you guess or anything. Where do you fall in the spectrum?

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, as far as -- again, this is all -- this is all speculation. There's a number of ways that Caylee could have died. You know, there is the possibility, there was the evidence of chloroform, which we can touch on later. There was a pool right there just a -- feet away, you know, a couple feet away from the doors that, you know, has had pictures of her being able to open, ladders that she potentially could really have climbed up herself.

    And I know that that is a major way that a lot of children die down here in Florida. But we don't know if that's the cause or if that was the cause of death. We don't know the cause of death, and that was one of the major issues that we had and one of the major issues that we had to address. We don't know the cause of death. Everything was speculation.

    VAN SUSTEREN: You mentioned the chloroform. How did that figure into this and into your thinking?

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the chloroform -- it really -- as far as the development of the chloroform, the Internet search on the chloroform, you know, really, there was the MySpace or FaceBook posting of the "Win her over with chloroform" picture. And then there was the actual Google search the next day that was done from the computer, not the laptop, but from the actual desktop computer in the Anthony home.

    You can speculate, you know, hey, here it is, the boyfriend posts this, "Win her over with chloroform." The next day, I want to know what chloroform is. You can speculate into that. There was no documentation on buying anything to make chloroform. The one Internet search that she made from Google was a three-minute Internet search. And then it subsided from there.

    And you know, if there was possible more traces of it in greater amounts, more of a way of how it can be concocted, how it could be purchased, whatever may be -- none of that was ever there. So we were very limited in what we had when it came to chloroform.

    We were told, and they did, you know, as far as how -- and what chloroform is detected in other products at the levels -- you know, chloroform is detectable in other products, as well. But there just was not enough, there really was not enough for us to bring chloroform into the mix.

    We know there were smaller levels of it in the trunk. We know there was a Google search on it. And that's what we had. It wasn't detected anywhere else. It was not on the steering wheel. It wasn't on the handle of the door, going into the car. And even if there was, there still is a question of who and where.

    VAN SUSTEREN: Did you think that Cindy Anthony was telling the truth when she said that she had done the searches for chloroform?

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there's a lot of speculation into that. There's a lot that went into her and looking for the chlorophyll because she was worried about her dogs. You know, I don't know. With Cindy, it wasn't as obvious to me, the lying. I mean, she was -- she was in a lot of pain. She was in a lot of stress. You know, allegedly, she was on a lot of medication. And she's been questioned a number of different times.

    But you know, as far as her going back and forth with that, you know, that was something that you always kind of kept in the back of your mind. You know, as far as her lying about it, well, there's, you know, people that may look into that and people -- but that was not something that we really considered much when we were going into deliberation.

    VAN SUSTEREN: When Cindy testified, she said something to the effect -- and I don't know the exact words, but that the car smelled of death or something. And I guess the prosecution's theory is that the child decomposed in that car, in part.


    VAN SUSTEREN: Did you credit what she said? Did you believe that that body -- that the child decomposed in the trunk?

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you know, there was the smell of decomposition that some police officers said they noticed and others did not. Here's the problem that I have with the decomposition, and this could -- this may lead into other questions that you may have for me.

    The day that everything went down in July, the car was there. People were not going in and out of the front door. They were going in and out of the garage door, and the car was right there. And there was nobody that detected the sign of decomp in that regard. If it was something that was that pungent, something that was that obvious, with the law officers that were going in and back -- in and forth -- in and out of the garage at that state, the father said that he smelled it earlier, but didn't bring it up at that point.

    I didn't -- the smell of the decomp was argued. And some people smelled it, some people did not smell it. So as far as whether or not the body did actually decomp in that trunk, you know, there is evidence that there could have been the decomp in there. But again, you know, we were looking more towards the cause and the who and the how. You know, with that car, there were a number of people that had a number of different -- that could have had access to that car.

    It wasn't just one key. And you know, you don't know how the body was actually or who put the body in the trunk or how long the body was in the trunk. Was there the smell of decomp in there? Yes, there was the smell of decomp from some people that would speculate that the body was put in the trunk. But then there were others that did not smell it.

    VAN SUSTEREN: So I think Lee did and Cindy did, right?