• ROVE: Right.

    VAN SUSTEREN: And we needed to fix it but having a bum solution is almost one of the worst things you can do, because now it sets us back.

    ROVE: I tried to sign on to HealthCare.gov just before I came, and nine minutes after the last hour, the system is down at the moment and we are experiencing technical difficulties and hope to have them fixed in a hurry, they said. You are right. This is a bum program. This is just not a website. It has a whole bunch of perverse incentives in it, disincentives for people to work and disincentives for people to have quality health coverage, and disincentives for people to be independent in their lives and make their own choices. I don't like the government telling me -- I like my current health care program. I suspect, by 2015, I won't be allowed to have it. Aetna did allow small businesses like mine to renew our policy before 2014 before the deadline, so we don't have to face this disaster until 2015. But I'm really worried I'm not going to be able to keep the policies that I and my employees like to have. And that's --


    ROVE: -- supposed to be the system, the solution to our problems is a solution that causes people to lose their coverage?

    VAN SUSTEREN: I'm going to take the last word on this. But I'm not worried about me. I have been pretty lucky. I will work it out. I really do feel there are so many people across America, middle income or lower- income or don't have jobs, they really needed a solution and if this one -- this one has created so many problems that it's really regrettable.

    But I'm taking the last word on that, Karl. Thank you, Karl.

    ROVE: Yeah. Better solutions were available.

    VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you.

    ROVE: Thank you, Greta.