Fox News
June 13, 2013

Giuliani: Obama's actions have built Americans' mistrust in Washington

Guests: Rudy Giuliani

This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," June 13, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: Joining me now with reaction to today's hearing and much more, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, good to see you. How are you?

FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI: I'm very good, Sean. How are you?

HANNITY: All right. Before we get to the hearings, what the headlines are out today, you asked to provide military support to Syrian rebels, aren't these the same rebels that pledge loyalty to Al Qaeda?

GIULIANI: Exactly. I mean, Al Masra, the major group, has specifically pledged allegiance to Al Qaeda. This situation maybe was a situation he could have handled this effectively a year, year and a half ago if he didn't do this leading from behind silliness. This is a situation of, you know, while Obama is fiddling, Syria is burning for the last year-and-a-half, two years.

So there is a vacuum left. If the vacuum has been filled by Al Masra, the Al Qaeda affiliate in that part of the world. So now if you arm them, they have actually -- their leader has announced, their next target after Syria is the United States of America.

HANNITY: Wow.

GIULIANI: So we'll be putting arms and training into a group -- of course we should overthrow Assad. But we also have to be careful that we don't overthrow Assad and we create an even bigger enemy of the United States.

HANNITY: Look, I'm sympathetic. Anywhere between 80,000 to 100,000 people died.

GIULIANI: I was in favor of doing this a year and a half ago, Sean. It seemed to me then, we had a chance -- the rebel groups then were more legitimate rebel groups, groups that were really just reacting to the oppression and the corruption of the Assad regime. We've had a good chance of reforming them. We've had a good chance of controlling them. I don't know where this notion, you know, of leading from behind came from. Leading from behind is called following.

HANNITY: All right. So, here is what I want to know. Is it possible what the president is proposing here, is to arm Al Qaeda to defeat Assad? Is it possible that we would do something that stupid?

GIULIANI: I can't believe we would do that. I think part of the hesitation for the last six months has been they are aware of this problem in the Obama administration. I don't know that they would admit that they created this problem. I believe they did. But I think they are aware of this problem which is why, they now seem to be almost dealing in check mate.

So, I don't know what they are going to do. A no-fly zone, maybe they can do that. To actually give arms, unless we were very, very careful and we really knew to whom we were giving it. The quality of our intelligence, never the very best.

So, he has got himself into a real pickle and this is what happened when you leave a vacuum and you have an America that doesn't want to be aggressive, an American doesn't want to act. Somebody else fills the vacuum. In this case, Al Masra and also Russia. Russia has moved into the vacuum and become an Iran. Yes, so Iran's man there from the very beginning. But Russia has now seeing the vacuum, so there they are supporting Assad.

On the other side, we have Al Qaeda supporting the rebels, well, we have nobody there that has anything but the worst intentions toward the United States of America.

HANNITY: You hear what Bill Clinton said today? He said that in a speech --I don't think he knew he was being taped -- that Obama risks looking like a total fool and a wuss and he said that Americans hired him to win.

GIULIANI: That was Bill Clinton?

HANNITY: Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton.

(LAUGHTER)

GIULIANI: I don't think you or I have ever said that.

HANNITY: I know. I wish I've thought of it first.

GIULIANI: -- quite that strongly. You know, I think the president is just reflecting exactly what I said. He understands what happened. He understands that by failing to act a year ago, a year and a half ago. Obama created this situation, it is true, he doesn't have a good answer right now. But what is also true is, he put himself and our country in that position. And for that, he and Hillary Clinton should be held to account.

HANNITY: Yes, it sounds to me like tossing Mubarak over overboard all over again. And the Muslim Brotherhood takes over.

Let me ask you about these hearing s today. You heard, you were laughing actually on who is playing the tapes of Mueller trying to defend themselves. But we have the IRS, the NSA, you got Benghazi, you saw those answered. What was your reaction?

GIULIANI: Seems terribly disengaged. I mean, I was at the highest level of the Justice Department, the third ranking official in the Justice Department during the Reagan administration for some very serious and very sensitive investigations. If you asked me who the lead investigator was, well, I had met with that guy probably about 20 times, so it would have been right on the tip of my tongue.

I don't get it. I mean, you have this IRS scandal going on. Outrageous violation of people's rights. The FBI director has to be on top of that. The FBI director has to be knowing that that's going on. You've got Benghazi. I don't understand how they didn't get in there for two weeks. I've never heard of law enforcement officials not going to a crime scene because it's too dangerous. I mean, that's what law enforcement officials do.

HANNITY: Did you hear that question, though?

GIULIANI: If I were the mayor of New York -- if my police commissioner have called up and said, hey, mayor, there's been a crime, we can't get in for two weeks.

HANNITY: Too dangerous.

GIULIANI: I can't tell you what I would have said.

HANNITY: All right. I don't think I would want to be on the receiving end of that call.

GIULIANI: How about at that point, if it is too dangerous, we bring in Special Forces and we have them protect the FBI agents. We'll go in there with, you know, with 50 SEALs and having them protect the FBI agents. If you don't get to the crime scene for two weeks, you can kiss that crime good-bye. I don't know, maybe they want to do.

HANNITY: One common denominator seems to be the lie. Benghazi lies, we've got lies about who knew what about the IRS scandal, we've got the Attorney General lying as it relates to James Rosen, Clapper admitting that he lied, basically I was as untruthful as I could be. And that does not come back to bite them? Because if I lied under oath, why do I think I would be in trouble?

GIULIANI: Well, I think what it indicates is, that they are just telling one story after another. And then you got to continue to lie. You know, when first, we practice to deceive, well, it just goes on and on and on and on.

And the reality is, here is where it really hurts America, beyond the political issue. We now have this big NSA situation where telephone records were seized, other records were seized under Prism. That may very well be a legitimate effort that is keeping us safe. But the reason for all of this distrust is because the president has built this mistrust by the way IRS was handled, by the way Benghazi was handled. By the way, the Rosen situation was handled. By the way, AP was handled.

So, now, you go to the American people, and you say the president needs this discretion to protect us, trust him. And people say, wait a second, IRS, Benghazi, Rosen, AP, we're going to trust him? And also, we have this man Snowden, who is there, has top security clearance, three months on the job, high school dropout, how many other -- how many other Snowdens are there? The sensitive records, how well protected are they? How well protected is your privacy or mine in these sensitive records if people like Snowden can just go on a little machine and get them?

HANNITY: It's frightening.

GIULIANI: It is frightening. So, I see NSA as more, a situation where the administration was probably acting in good faith to protect our security. I don't see the IRS that way, Benghazi, Snowden -- rather Rosen, or the AP. But I think the incompetence of it hurts it just as much.

HANNITY: I agree. And also is against the actual letter of the law, the Patriot Act. And what the FISA courts were designed. I talked to Jim Sensenbrenner, he wrote the bill. He said, overreaching.

GIULIANI: I think that may be true, I'm not sure. I don't know exactly what they do. Here is what I'm sure of. It's being handled in the most amateurish way if a person like Snowden can get access to it.

HANNITY: Sure. All right. Mr. Mayor, good to see you.

GIULIANI: Thank you.

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