• With: Austan Goolsbee, Ari Fleischer

    GOOLSBEE: Sean, you had people on the show who said they were dropping coverage because ObamaCare was going to increase their costs...

    HANNITY: And the president had 13 people...

    GOOLSBEE: ... and then they got fact-checked...

    HANNITY: Wait a minute! And the president had 13 people...

    GOOLSBEE: ... and it wasn't accurate!

    HANNITY: ... behind him that -- touting ObamaCare, and three were signed up!

    FLEISCHER: And if it wasn't for ObamaCare, IBM would still be offering these plans to their retirees. It was one of the great private sector innovations...

    GOOLSBEE: The fact is that health care costs...

    FLEISCHER: ... in America that they got insurance on top of Medicare because Medicare doesn't pay for everything.

    HANNITY: All right, I want to go through this slowly. So the president said, Ari, that people can keep their plan, 300,000 Floridians, your mother, they're not the keeping their plan. President said this would be $900 billion. Latest estimates are three times that amount. President said to save the average person -- family would save $2,500. According to Forbes, there is an increase of $7,500, a $10,000 swing.

    FLEISCHER: It would bring the health curve down, he said.

    HANNITY: That's correct.

    FLEISCHER: We haven't seen evidence of that. But the fundamental, biggest issue that remains is whether we're going to have what's called adverse selection, which is that the only people who really do take the trouble to sign up now are those who need it the most, the sickest among us, and that young and healthy people who we need to have contributed to an insurance pool will not. That's why this so-called quirk is such -- the kink now is such a bad problem.

    HANNITY: Kink. Glitch.

    FLEISCHER: The only people remaining who get it are those who need it the most -- which is a good thing. We want people to get it. But if the price is that insurance premiums skyrocket for the rest of us, it's a death spiral and health care is broken.

    HANNITY: You know -- you know, Austan, we're friends. I -- you're a good guy. I like meeting with you, like talking to you. And I like our little bets that we have. But I got to tell you something...

    GOOLSBEE: You still owe me dinner.

    HANNITY: I gave you a dinner card to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse.

    GOOLSBEE: You're trying to spend your way out of it, and that won't work!

    HANNITY: I did -- I gave you a gift card.

    But here's the point. All of this evidence is out there, and you're just in a state of denial. You're looking...

    GOOLSBEE: I'm not in a state of denial.

    HANNITY: You're in a state of utter...

    GOOLSBEE: Sean, I keep giving you facts...

    HANNITY: ... complete Obama mania denial!

    GOOLSBEE: I tried to ahead of time say, look, what facts would come out that would make you decide that what you were saying was not true? But you refused to acknowledge those. So if I showed you that health care costs have risen slower in the last two years than at any two-year period...

    HANNITY: You're living in an alternate universe!

    GOOLSBEE: ... in the last 50 years, would that be a piece of evidence?

    HANNITY: Ari?

    FLEISCHER: Austan...

    GOOLSBEE: But you don't accept that piece.

    FLEISCHER: Austan, I have a question for you.

    GOOLSBEE: OK.

    FLEISCHER: You were on the inside, so you know the dynamics of how the Obama operation works. Why wouldn't the president have been told ahead of time about all the problems before it launched? Why would the secretary of HHS say that?

    GOOLSBEE: I don't totally know. I couldn't tell from that interview what she was describing. I would think that they would go through -- the president wouldn't be doing beta testing, obviously, of the program, but would be apprised...

    FLEISCHER: Right.

    GOOLSBEE: ... this stuff that was going on.

    HANNITY: I have a follow-up to that.

    GOOLSBEE: So I don't know. That was the only 10-second reference to that, so I'm not sure.

    HANNITY: You're an economics guy. Can you name any private company that having three years to prepare for this launch of a website and $634 million -- would the person responsible for that launch be fired in the private sector?