• With: Monica Crowley, Jim Pinkerton, Richard Grenell, Juan Williams, Judy Miller

    This is a rush transcript from "Fox News Watch," July 6, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


    GLENN GREENWALD, THE GUARDIAN: What they care about is making an extremely negative example out of him to intimidate future whistleblowers from coming forward.

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Guardian columnist who served as the conduit for government secrets provided by Edward Snowden taking a stand and defending the illegal actions of his source. Is he acting as a journalist or an activist? And what's the difference?

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you think that there was anything wrong with him following him to see where he was going?

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Legally speaking, no.

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A murder trial of George Zimmerman getting more volatile coverage. And as the trial presses on, are the media pressing their agenda? Trying to convict Zimmerman before the jury speaks? NFL star Aaron Hernandez facing charges of murder and other misdeeds, but he is not the only bad boy in the league. Can the media be blamed for ignoring the bad behavior?

    A journalist dies in a fiery crash. And the details are somewhat sketchy. Was this part of a conspiracy to shut him up?

    And Facebook pulls the plug on a Fox News radio host's post.

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I reached out to Facebook and I said, well, did you have a problem with the NRA, with Jesus, with the plump juicy chicken breast from Chick-fil-A, and they haven't responded yet.


    ERIC SHAWN, GUEST HOST: And on the panel this week, writer and Fox News contributor Judy Miller. Radio talk show host Monica Crowley. Jim Pinkerton, contributing editor of The American Conservative Magazine, Fox News analyst Juan Williams and Fox News contributor Rick Grenell. I'm Eric Shawn, Fox News Watch is on right now.


    GREENWALD: Thomas Jefferson 250 years ago said that those who most fear investigations are the ones who attack a free press first. That's why a free press is guaranteed, so that I can as a journalist tell my fellow citizens that the government is collecting all of their phone records and e-mail records and tapping into their Facebook conversations and Google chats and Skype telephone calls. This is what journalism is about. Shining a light on what the most powerful people in the country are doing to them in the dark. So, we are going to continue to do that no matter what David Gregory and his friends say.


    SHAWN: That's Guardian columnist Glen Greenwald, he's holding his ground, defending his reporting on government spying. Greenwald's actions causing a debate over activism and journalism. Margaret Sullivan, who's the public editor at The New York Times, wrote this. A real journalist is one who understands at a cellular level, and doesn't shy away from the adversarial relationship between government and press, the very tension that America's founders had in mind with the First Amendment. Those who fully meet the description deserve to be respected and protected, not marginalized.

    The New York Times media columnist David Carr, though, warns that, "I do think activism, which is admittedly accompanied by the kind of determination that can prompt discovery, can also impair vision. If an agenda is in play and momentum is at work, cracks may go unexplored." Judy Miller, you served time and in -- in prison because you were a journalist. Has Greenwald gone over the line?

    JUDY MILLER, WRITER & FOX CONTRIBUTOR: No, I don't think he has. And I think he needs to be defended. I think he is a journalist with a point of view. He's a columnist. He's a blogger. He is now a member of our profession and we ought to stop those people who suggest that he's guilty of some kind of crime for soliciting news or encouraging people to talk to him, which is what the government tried to say about James Rosen, the Fox News reporter.

    SHAWN: And how do we know Greenwald is fair and actually being honest?

    MILLER: What do you mean fair? I mean he has a point of view and he's open about it. I think the problem is journalists who have an agenda that a reader or a viewer is not aware of.

    JIM PINKERTON, THE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE MAGAZINE: Well, we don't know that Greenwald is fair, but we leave it to the First Amendment and the battle of ideas to sort that out. History will judge whether Greenwald has been accurate or not, but in the meantime, it is in the interest of all journalists, in fact, all Americans to protect his right to free speech. Even as we agree that Snowden as The Wall Street Journal pointed out on Wednesday, is less - looking less and less glamorous and more and more like destitute (ph) for the Russians.

    SHAWN: Monica and Juan, I mean they talk about him being a hero, they talk about him being a traitor. What's your view?

    JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, on Snowden I think he is a traitor. I don't think it's much doubt about it in my mind. But on Greenwald, this is much more interesting to me because when you look at the Rosen case and the idea that an American journalist would be targeted for prosecution, as part of that conspiracy, you think, well, in the Rosen case there were uses of aliases, you know, new email accounts, blind e-mail accounts. And you can understand why the government might think, oh, there's something more going on here. But if you put the government in charge of labeling who is a journalist and who is not a journalist, I think we undo then First Amendment protections. The difficulty here is if you get someone, let's say, from -- you know, let's say who is a terrorist and who says oh, yeah, I'm working for X magazine, but I really want to undermine the U.S. government and all I'm about is, ending the American democracy, because I think America is a terrible place. Well, but how do you say to that person you are not a journalist?

    SHAWN: What do you mean? At Inspire magazine, that Al Qaeda time magazine ...

    WILLIAMS: That's exactly. So, is that person a journalist? I don't think so. I think you have to look as in the Rosen case I think the - mistake that was made there was law enforcement didn't say, hey, wait a second, who is this guy? And does he have a record, does he have a background as a professional journalist? Answer, yes.

    MONICA CROWLEY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yeah, there is some real questions here and the very interesting ones about the distinctions between journalists and propagandists, for example. And activists. But the question here in this case is not Glenn Greenwald. I agree with all of you, guys, that he is not the issue here. He was the conduit, he was the journalist who reported the story. The real question here is about Edward Snowden. And Eric, you raised the question here or a traitor. I think the media loves a stark distinction. And they will try to chase down those stark distinctions. Black versus white. Hero versus traitor. I think he is somewhere in the middle. I mean I think that you can honestly say - and this is now something that the media has really explored over the last couple of weeks. You can actually be on the side of wanting our state's secrets to be protected, but also being deeply concerned about this kind of a program and the potential abuse of some of those programs.

    SHAWN: You know, we have a statement from Snowden. Let's read that now. It says, "In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned and powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised and it should be." Rick Grenell, you served four United States ambassadors to the United Nations, the member of administrations. What do you think about that type of perspective that the American public should be afraid of the government?

    RICHARD GRENELL, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I don't think the American public should be afraid of the government. But -- the government has a responsibility to make sure that the classified information that it has is protected and that it hires people who will protect that information. I also don't think that the government should decide who is a journalist because whether you work for The New York Times, Meet the Press, or you are a blogger, or you are an activist on Twitter, you are a journalist that is pushing these issues. The government shouldn't be involved. I will tell you what's really happening here, though. It is the -- approved journalists, the media in Washington, who have been getting all of these leaks, are really upset that Glenn is coming in to the forefront and he is an unapproved journalist. So that the issue is with, the upsetting of the apple cart within the media world. That's what's the problem.

    SHAWN: Judy, I know you are smiling and laughing. You got the kind of incestuous internal relationship in Washington with everyone going to the Georgetown cocktail parties and then reporting on each other.

    MILLER: Yeah. And Glen Greenwald is not part of that club. But I have to point out this is more than a semantic debate because we are trying to enact a federal shield law to protect sources of journalists. How you define journalist is going to be very important.

    PINKERTON: I just want to say I agree with Thomas Jefferson, author of the First Amendment who said that the government should be afraid of the people.


    WILLIAMS: And I must say - I must say in contrary to what we just read from Greenwald, or -- Snowden, excuse me, the American people are not mad at the American government after his revelation. To the contrary, when you look at the polls they are mad at Snowden and they think that his behavior and the fact that he's fled the country and not been accountable is reprehensible.

    CROWLEY: Well, but I will say this. When you look at polling the American people are very concerned about this kind of program and the potential abuses of it.

    WILLIAMS: Correct. But if you ask them -- understanding that we live in an age of terrorism, Monica, if you ask them is this something that the government needs to engage in, they -- also -- say yes.

    CROWLEY: If it's restricted to terrorism only, which we don't know.

    GRENELL: But Juan ...

    SHAWN: And you've got the poll out at 59 percent -- I'm sorry, Rick, 50 percent say the government surveillance invades innocent Americans' privacy. Look at that. Overwhelming majority of Americans think the government has gone too far. Rick, go ahead.

    GRENELL: But if you take young people, which I think you've got to think about the future of our country, young people are overwhelmingly upset with this type of stuff. They live on Facebook, they live on Twitter.